7: Peter Habicht - F1 & America

In this episode, Abby is joined by Peter Habicht, Stanford engineering grad turned F1 freelance journalist based in San Francisco. Peter is a contributor for TalkSPORT radio and has worked with Mercedes F1 Heritage to produce the first-ever public demonstration of the current era V6 turbo hybrid-powered Formula 1 car in the US for the inaugural Sonoma Speed Festival. He also serves as an advisor and consultant for investment analysts and media channels for an American point of view of F1. 

Abby and Peter discuss the history of F1 and motorsport in the US and how bringing value from personal experiences and passion can be an extremely effective way to make one's way in F1. In addition, they discuss how Netflix's Drive to Survive successfully tapped into specific qualities the American audience associates with. Tune in to hear them discuss the future of F1 in the US and the probability of more races, an American team, or a driver under the Liberty Media era.

Follow Peter on Instagram (@peterhabicht) and Twitter (@F1US)
Visit Peter's webpage at https://1laureldrive.com/ and on Instagram @1laureldrive

Transcript

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Yeah, I mean the courage again, you know, folks to find a community who's interested in Formula One and start, start watching your living room and invite friends over. It doesn't have to be anything too elaborate. Like I said, I mean, we started in 2005. With, with 10 people. You know, what I love about any Formula One fan is they just bring their passion. Welcome to racing forces, a podcast where we have conversations about the human element of Motorsports and the subculture of Formula One, with our really cool friends, as we explore personal journeys and talk about slightly tougher topics like inclusion, and equity and mental health in the sport, as well as the unique culture of Motorsports that is more than just fast cars. I'm your host, Abby, a massive Motorsports fan and a career strategist in automotive and tech. And join us on our journey through conversations for the new guests or on a new topic every week. Please like, subscribe and share the podcast with your friends and family. We really appreciate it. Hello, everyone. Welcome to this episode of raising forces. So okay, I'm very excited today because I get to talk about a fascinating aspect of the sport. And probably the hottest talked about topic this year. Formula One's rise as a popular sport in America. And I get to do that with our guests Peter habicht. He's an f1, freelance journalist and someone who has seen the rise of the sport gradually in the country for over a decade. He's a contributor for Talksport radio and has worked with Mercedes f1 heritage at Mercedes AMG Petronas Formula One team to produce the first ever public demonstration of the current era v six f1 car in the US. He also served as an advisor and consultant for multiple investment analysts and media channels for an American point of view of the sport in the last couple of years. Welcome, Peter. Great to be here. I'm glad we're finally getting to do this. After connecting for the past couple of months. You were at Laguna Seca and the last IndyCar race this weekend. Right? I was Yeah, I was down there on the Saturday for a beautiful day of racing and loss of former Formula One talent. Oh, that's awesome, right? Colton Herta took the win Colton. That's another name, I think will refer to later has been talked about potentially having an f1 drive in the future. We'll see. We'll see. He's finding a really good home. And certainly working closely, close to home with his dad, Bryan, who I think has been an important part of his successful and I would say immediate rise in the sport. He's definitely, definitely doing some amazing things with his dad, you know, not not too far away from him at all times. It seems like, yeah, that totally makes sense. So we'll get into all of that today. Because I definitely want to talk everything racing inside America, and how like racing is the lifeblood of the US has has been for a long time. And we've kind of forgotten some of that. So I want to bring a little bit of it back today in this conversation. But your personal story is so interesting. You're a Stanford engineering grad, who eventually transitioned into a career in motorsports and you use journalism as a vehicle to do so. Like, I want to hear all of that, like how did that journey start? When did you fall in love? And then why journalism and then the sport because I know you covered the building of the Cota circuit here in Austin, Texas. So it's very interesting to see or actually meet with somebody who has been here following the journey of f1 inside the country so closely. Sure. So from engineering school, I think one of the biggest highs for me to tie closely to Formula One, in a competition amongst students in a class to build a device that had to complete a task. And the class was divided into teams. And we all worked sort of siloed off from each other for a number of weeks and showed up on competition day. And one of the biggest takeaways I had was feeling it would be great to win, but I feel like wow, I felt like I've already won because I've learned all these different approaches, different from my own to solve the same problem. And it was a memory that stuck with me throughout my career and throughout my life. And it was, it was a very powerful moment for me in school. It was a real moment of joy. And when I was introduced to any kind of racing, it was actually, through my mom, who was a very, yeah, she's a very, very big enthusiast and did club racing. Not Not far from where I grew up in New York, and she was able to do sort of club events. So it wasn't racing, per se, but sort of exhibition to speed on a track with an instructor and then and then on your own. And I was given an opportunity to get behind the wheel on a couple of occasions, and really enjoy the experience. Those two pieces were something that I wanted to combine at some point in my life, but I didn't know how, after working in engineering, product development, more mechanical engineering. I really thought, gosh, you know, what, what is it about motorsport that intrigues me, of all the types that are available in Formula One spoke to me, it allowed us because it showed or showcased the ability to develop within constraints, unique solutions to the same kind of problem. And the spirit of competition was something that was there on race day, and all the lessons learned from each race, at each attempt at at each innovative solution. Were, of course, copied by everyone else, the next race, but it was a very interesting and kind of a rich area for exploration and innovation. And certainly, certainly, like applied applied math, physics, and sort of technological approach to, to racing. So that was really, for me, the genesis for Formula One, how to get involved in the sport, professionally, absolutely. No family connection to Formula One, no, no real work experience, you know, in any kind of racing, was really, you know, it really came down to me to to, to sort of figure that out. And what I could do locally was be part of a Formula One community, and help grow that community. So that was in 2005. meeting other like minded folks who are interested in seeing, meeting other Formula One fans on the sport. And really, that, that was something that very early on wasn't a clear line to how, how that would really turn into anything. But by slowly building the sport from 10 people at a sports bar in North Beach to 3000 people now who I can reach locally and greater nationally, I can help not only build a community of 41 fans who follow the sport, I can continue to reach others who are interested in finding communities like like the one in San Francisco that I've, I've been a big part of, to, to bring fans together. That journey really got steam, I would say in the social media, Dawn, and it has continued to this day. So it's a community of people that has brought me renewed energy and passion and connection and community. And people from all all walks of life, people who are casual fans, people who grew up in another country, and brought their passion for Formula One with them, everybody, you know, really being in the same room. And sharing the experience of watching a race, either live or taped, is something very unique and something I encourage everybody to try and find a community like that or build one. You know, as you know, the community really grew very organically in San Francisco. So it's something that is definitely possible. From San Francisco, we saw New York build a big community and then Los Angeles and now we have San Diego and Seattle. A lot of them are like oh yeah, you know, we've all we've heard about you guys and you know, we wanted to come out and meet the group and, and it's been great. I mean, we've had some of these experiences meeting current Formula One team personnel, we've met control system engineer from from Jensen buttons, car in 2007. He was on holiday. And just had his family and his girlfriend with him at the time and they were all looking for a place to watch the race live. So we watched the Brazilian Grand Prix and afterwards, we had this incredible opportunity to ask questions about the car. How does it work? How many processors does it have on board? What's your role within the team You know, incredible window into into Formula One, something that's a lot more common now, with teams sharing more about who does what on the car and who the folks are, that make up a Formula One team and what their roles are. So yeah, it was a, it was a, I would say, a big aha moment when you're starting to gain the attention of folks within the sport. And then, and then beyond. You know, when when we're bringing communities of people together, it's a very experiential component that I really take seriously, and how, how people experience the sport, their access to information, and the ability to learn more about what it is that they're seeing, no, that totally makes sense. And I love the passion you have for the community that you have built and how building that community kind of took your career path into Formula One, which is in an episode, we've talked about already community initiatives. But I also definitely want to dive deep into then you're building these communities. And you've been watching this together in San Francisco, like 2005. Is that right? Is that your right? Yeah, yeah. So almost like 16 years now. So from there, now you have your freelance journalists accredited by FIA. And then you also serve as an investment advisor, as well as consultant to a bunch of companies and media channels. Like let's talk about that a little bit. Sure. Yeah. I've been approached several occasions to consult with or I'm talking to, say, an analyst who's getting up to speed on the space. Certainly in the pre limited Liberty Media era, I was doing a bit more of that work, just trying to help folks understand in a very sort of opaque, yeah, an opaque view of the sport. So now, not a lot of public disclosures other than what Bernie would tell people. So giving people I think, just a general sense of sort of the alliances the maybe a little bit of the power structure within this. Interesting Yeah. Yeah, exactly. And how, how different initiatives and different trends and influences affect, who all's really considered a stakeholder within the sport, right? That that only makes sense because post Liberty era are the quarterly calls that did that they do usually have a lot of opportunity. Like I've listened to a couple of the recordings where the analysts show up and have a bunch of questions on the live investor calls, but I'm assuming that there was an era where not a lot of that was known. And it definitely is still very much about the power struggle in a lot of places, right? Like what team holds what cards, because it's a very small industry, people don't realize that, that f1 is not a very huge, it's a big sport. But it's not a huge industry. A lot of people know each other players move from one team to the other. Like, I think their recent news that came out was about Martin Whitmarsh going to ask them Martin to lead their technical development stuff for their Applied Engineering group. I think I'm getting that right. Yeah, for this specialized engineering group. And I didn't know much about him, but I just found out that he's done a lot of stuff around, did a lot of work with McLaren, and was very instrumental in getting Lewis to McLaren and a lot of these other things. So players really moved or move around in this sport, like back and forth a lot. They do. And it's something that I think speaks to the the individual potential for careers to grow within the sport and how pain are applicable. And kind of universal. Some of the some of the knowledge is within teams, not only within teams, but also within the automotive industry as well. So looking at, yeah, looking at looking at how different lenses that people sort of develop around their area of expertise can be sort of repurposed or re channeled, refocused on on different other sorry, on different areas. Within a team even I love that you test the autopark because I think we've talked about this personally before, but I worked in tech and mobility and auto and I still do, but one of my old colleagues used to be ricardos on christianna, the Marta and Ralf Schumacher is race engineer at Toyota. So people in auto like when you start like having these conversations around racing, like start finding so many contacts that go back into the sport itself. So it's very interesting to see how that connects. And I'm I'm glad that you found a niche there sitting in the US didn't have to move over. Were to UK and created this path because a lot of us think, Hey, you have to go move to UK to find your passion in the sport or even like work in the sport. But yeah, I think 99% of the time, that still is true. But I still love that unique story that you've kind of created your own kind of path in your own community there. Thank you. Yeah, it is. It's something that the you probably get asked this or, you know, have friends who wonder, you know, how do I, how do I work in Formula One or work, you know, in industry related? You know, I think it's, I think it's important to, to really demonstrate value to the sport, through your own experience. And in my case, I had the technical background, I had the passion and I had the interest. And really, my, my relevant. I think, body of experience, aside from that really had to do with the fact that I was closest to an American group of Formula One fans. So understanding very close what what that community look like, what they wanted to see more of what they liked, what they didn't like, you know, it really, I think that that really became, I think, my center of focus. And, you know, when I sit in the media center at Kota, you know, I'm surrounded by people who have hundreds of years combined experience in the sport, if not 1000s. But the one thing that I have inside that, that room is my perspective, and what I bring to the conversation really, is based in my experience, and so creating that experience for myself, and then bringing that to the conversation and taking that to sort of natural conclusions, whether that's working with Mercedes heritage, or building a, helping a friend build a website or, you know, creating an experience around a watch party or viewing event, or in my case, you know, helping the senate movie distributors figure out where to screen the movie. Yeah, I was gonna touch on that, that that was probably super cool. Like, and that was like, what came out? 2010 Yeah, 20, I think it was around 2010 2011. And that was, that was a really interesting experience meeting. And, and working closely with the distribution in the United States, you know, working with an outfit that had a really interesting property that they were trying to market, but really didn't have their finger on the pulse of where to screen the movie and the movie business. You know, it's all about really targeting your market and figuring out where, where can you show this, this independent film, to get, you know, the biggest impact and, and also came out and gave a beautiful discussion of the film and the subject and, and the experience to pack theater, you know, three 400 Formula One fan to San Francisco on a Thursday night at 930. In the evening, you know, some of that movie theater, I don't I don't think had seen it a long time. But when you bring the people there, and you know, you have an audience, that's the kind of impact that that I can deliver is, is really bringing the people the interest, the passion and the experience together. And massage with us if it was, it was very memorable, really, really incredible experience. Now, we'll have to talk more after we get off this podcast about all of this because I can go hours into these conversations but bringing back to us and f1. And the history is the meat of the conversation today is right f1 is finding its foothold in America again, we when we think about racing, right people forget that the heritage of the sport racing itself and I'm not talking to single cedars specifically, is almost as old as Europe if not older. It's definitely not older. I think Europeans developed and perfected the single seater. America perfected stock car racing more and then pre war there's stuff happening with the venerable cop or the Savannah Auto Club was doing right, the grand prize. That's what they used to call it, I think. And then post first world Ward kind of declines Indy 500, still doing something and then in the 60s, some form of Lakewood Sebring, Riverside, Watkins Glen like it all starts in the 60s again. And now then we do indie for a little bit and now we've done like coda was like the official usgp inside Formula One for a bit. That's the last era of it. So There's so many different things paths we can go to. But I know you've talked about this, like you defining this in 3d kind of era. So let's go into that a little bit. So actually, it actually predates the 60s, back when Indianapolis was was a fixture on the Formula One World Championship calendar. So you actually are looking at, from 50, to 50 to 91, I would say are sort of sort of the first sort of chunk of era. And that's a, I guess, referred to as a bit of the golden era of Formula One in this country. You know, you had a smattering of drivers competing in in one race or a couple of races or a handful races in the 50s. And then the 60s, we had Phil Hill 61 won the world championship. And then we had married later with fotis, in 1978. And then in 1991, that was sort of the end of the last US based race. And then from 2000, to 2007, we've had our certain days at Indy 2000 was interesting, high watermark at 250,000. In the audience, it was the largest attendance recorded for a Grand Prix is a big place, we saw, you know, a real break from Oh, eight to 11. In that time period, I like to think groups like ours in San Francisco, we're probably bringing more Formula One fans together to watch Grand Prix racing than anybody else on the planet on this country. So those are some great years for the San Francisco following community. We watch Lewis when his first title, you know, just incredible. That's incredible. Super memories. Yeah. And just seeing that, you know, that time of growth for a sport that had no physical presence in the United States, but did in our community was I thought that was a really, really positive sign. And then as coda was announced, I was introduced to folks who were working with tilka and still work with them today who were constructing the track. So I was afforded an opportunity to go basically driving a golf cart, or on a dirt track around the entire circuit. And, and it was incredible, it was real. It was a real happening. It was an absolute real flag in the ground for for Formula One, and a home for Formula One racing. So something that in I still see it as today. It's a real, real sort of spiritual home for Formula One racing in America. intentions behind the circuit, the people involved, exactly. As Park was built, right, it was the first purpose build track in the US for f1. Absolutely. it and it sure delivered. You know, we saw, we've seen, you know, lots of great racing since since 2012. To present day, so now we have a new race coming on board on St. circuit in Miami. Next year in May, and that'll be another great presence and real source for for new experience for Formula One fans and for Formula One itself to to have a presence in the in the United States. Yeah, that totally makes sense. And do you think in your personal experience, because you've been here watching the fan base for a really long time? Do you think the Netflix series has had a real impact in terms of the mass numbers that this year at least ESPN is reporting, right? They have I think Baku was 1 million people that they recorded on ESPN, keeping in mind that ESPN is not recording any of the f1 TV pro numbers or anything, right? So there's a whole set of people who are doing that, then there's the revenue, I think it's difficult to split just with us numbers. But overall, I think in the past year, personally, I think this is just a personal experience thing. More and more people have come up to me and taken an active interest in the sport like people just watching a Netflix show and then coming on to me and saying that, hey, by the way, we want to start watching races fully. And I've like I've had friends reach out to me this past couple of weeks and be like, hey, by the way, let us know like what what's a good turn to watch the race? And I'm like, Are you the same person and three years ago said I have no interest in racing. So like there are that changes discernibly happen, but I definitely want to just see what your experience has been there. Well, they answer your question. I think you just answered that. I mean, you're getting people coming up to you about for the one because not because they're waking up at 530 in the morning and channel surfing and come across ESPN, that's for sure. I mean, these are folks who are, you know, having a cultural experience and an f1 and awareness. Right. That's coming right? Out of that series, I mean drive survivors unquestionably a huge part of real jumping onboarding, really, for people to not only get involved in sort of the action on the track, but really understand these people's lives. And it's a very human side to Formula One that has been opened up to to all to follow, not not the entire field, of course, but I mean, your following, you know, some some pretty pivotal moments, within a season within a career within a team within a race, that are very relatable, and they're, they're made relatable, with the context and the background that that drive to survive, is able to provide with the access that they have. And that hasn't always been the case, of course, in Formula One, pre Liberty Media. So these are initiatives that Liberty Media has really backed to their credit, to create a relatable and engaging and compelling experience just watching the series. Yeah, and you said cultural experience, which is very interesting, because in a lot of art, I am pro drive to survive lemon for my stance here correctly, I think the sport does a great job because it gave me my lightbulb moment, being a racing fan for the past decade that I had knowledge that could be translated over keeping in mind that this is all short, right? It's not definitely the whole reality. It's not the full picture even. But it there were a lightbulb moment, I think I was working on tire deck for a national fleet of cars that I was doing strategy for. I was having very similar conversations with Goodyear regarding like, what was on my tire faster, what conditions it was doing some nitrogen tire testing with a specialized group up in DC and I realized oh, same problems trying to solve the same problems but in a very different set. And that's when I like made that connection because before then I somehow didn't make it and that's on me though. Coming back to it is that individual individual experience that relatability factor and I think that is way more prevalent in American storytelling than it is anywhere else. Because I don't necessarily think that a lot of Europeans I've I have friends journalist friends who say that they will never watch drive to survive. They do not like the kind of storytelling they like in a journalistic aspect which I get right. That is everybody's it's not everybody's Piece of cake. But I think it's been a huge hit in America specifically because I think we relate to that form of storytelling a lot. It's just individual that hero's journey, like you see in the season one Daniel being portrayed as a hero of sorts, making those moves, and then they have like, kept those vantage points and they necessarily will take audio from like one race put it another to dislike, show that hero's journey that like got people hooked, and I think that did the job very well. Yeah, I think there's a different pieces to journalism, right, there's that, you know, you can sort of document what you know what, what is happening, and get into, you know, all kinds of storylines around, you know, a single weekend. But I think it's it journalism isn't just documentation, it's sharing knowledge. And it would be a disservice, I think, to to really look at drivers as just a sort of touch point for documenting, you know, a team's or individual driver careers, right? achievements. I think there's the whole story as certainly in Formula One of even just getting to the show. And that's a big, big part of what we're trying to find out in America, you know, how do we get an American to drive in Formula One, and the origin story is a big part, there's 20 of these seats available in the world. So you know, we're not talking about an NBA or NFL or Major League Baseball, with a baseball diamond, you know, on every little league playground in America, right? I mean, this, this is something that's just beyond, I think the the relevant experience of so many people. So it's fascinating, I think, for us as Americans to realize, hey, there's this whole other world out there of sport that we're not as familiar with. There are real people who are committing their entire lives and livelihoods to succeed. That's, that's interesting, right? So we're just in a nutshell and when when we dive a little deeper into The journeys that these people have these drivers have. They're very relatable. They're stories about failure, there's stories about success, there's hope. There's discovery. There's their breakthroughs, there are setbacks. And and it's all in motion. And we we tune in to drive to survive, to really onboard ourselves. You know, if we're a new fan, you know, we're really onboarding. And we're, we're getting it we're getting, we're getting up to speed, you don't have all the information, you don't have all the facts, but we're getting a base of knowledge that informs us about what it is that we're going to watch on a grand prix Sunday. So all of those, those key touch points give us maybe even a favorite driver or a favorite team or a connection to our shared interests that a driver would share on drive to survive, that we would never know. Looking at them underneath a race helmet in a cockpit of a car, driving 200 miles an hour. It's just not. It's it's not just one thing. And I think that's what Formula One is so good at portraying is that it it is certainly not just one thing. It's not only a human story, but it's a story of fame and celebrity and an even vast riches. And, and, and hope and triumph and defeat and, and competition. And it's it's a very wide platform, I think for for many, many different stories and people to to coexist around a common shared interests. Yeah, I love that those were the qualities you kind of summarize, because that is personification of the American dream, right? All of those qualities is very much true to the American dream. And I think that's what they were able to kind of sell through the documentary series. And if you think about, and it's not necessarily very documentary, it's Yes, it's realistic, but it probably does not full documentary either. But keeping this in mind, it really makes sense. Because f1, I've started thinking more and more about like these functional areas in the sport a little bit more in f1 is a tale of engineering, but it is equal 50%. if not more media, it's entertainment at the end of the day. So engineering is really important for the sport, but it doesn't get the money to do the engineering, if it's not making it an entertainment. And I think that's what Liberty Media probably keyed into, as they're kind of creating this new generation of the sport. But keeping all of this in mind, do you think that Liberty Media is doing enough to capitalize on the growth that's happening in the us right now converting using the resources like Sirius, XM and other sports that they're involved in? Are they doing enough to capitalize on the US growth? Well, I think what we have is a global sport. In the United States, it's, it's really come down from the top that we our liberty is, is is here to, I think, break the sport a little more widely in this country. And, from what, from what I can tell, and from the numbers that that I've been exposed to, I mean, Formula One has seen, you know, huge increase in engagement in 20 2021. Something like 99%, a 35, increase in follower count across all platforms. Interesting. And you know, formal one is, is probably the fastest growing sport in America. I mean, according to quarter them, that's the case. So I would say that they are certainly seeing the results of what what they are putting their resources towards, are they at the level of the NFL or the NBA or major league baseball or the NHL? I would say, No. But I find it very relevant that Formula One is going to be racing on the grounds of an NFL team in May. And I think that the opportunities that will come from that type of cross pollination, emotion, cross promotion, will be a huge piece of the success and maybe even form part of the blueprint for success of the team going forward or sorry, of the sport going forward. So there's a big piece there that we'll see. You know, how that how that plays out. Yeah, that makes sense and I think the next frontier for it to become much more mainstream. And I know we've talked about like watch parties and such. I'm going to Austin, Texas, spiritual home, as you've called it, I still haven't found a watch party yet. So if you know of one, please let me know. Oh, of course. Yeah, I think it may be a little bit more ad hoc in Austin. You know, it may just sort of pop up here and there. Yeah. But yeah, I'm always happy to, you know, people to add me on Twitter. And I share that information retweeted and you know, people get linked up. The circuit itself does host watch parties as well throughout the season. And certainly my friends at speed city are you know, have a ton of great times when the circuit or sorry, when the racism isn't that coda. So there's always interested in museum and I think a willingness to, to engage, it's Austin says, is so friendly, and so friendly. We love Austin, we are a friendly bunch of people. So now next frontier of us, and people keep talking about this finding they're more fans around them. But I think the next frontier of that next level of growth is has to be a US team or us driver that Haas is already a US team. But I can go into multiple reasons on why people don't connect with us on a spiritual level. It also may have been pushed in the other direction by that now there's a German and Russian driver even though he Schumacher son driving for the team, I think people connected to garage on and Magnussen a little bit more than they, they are connecting with the current drivers right now. And also they're running a Ferrari engine. So yeah, there's a lot of reasons where we can go and like, and I do also think that gene Haas has one foot out the door. I want to write an article about this very soon. But I definitely do think that the next frontier is going to be a new US driver and another American outfit. We've heard talks of Andretti coming into the sport, like what what's your take on that? Well, I think those would all help. I think this, the addition of more races in the United States is going to be I think, an immediate next step right. Ahead of a US driver, and by all indications will be and I think it's right now Formula One has to demonstrate the experience of what it is. I think there's a I think there's a sort of, there's a proofing that I think happens when fans attend an event live and and I think that's a general increase in not only buzz, but I think like kind of geographic relevance, you know, getting a race on the sort of on the western part of the United States, East Coast of the United States, maybe somewhere in the middle, the United States or maybe another West Coast race. Those are all I think, you know, maybe one where we have a fixed base, and then we alternate between venues going forward. I think that that seems like a likely next step. But certainly getting the product in front of the people is a big is a big part of it. I think the issue of time zones is huge for Formula One because we don't see a lot of races at a what's called a watchable hour for most people. So for non fans, it's it's it's a non starter to wake up at 530 on the west coast to race in Europe. Not saying we don't all do it here, but at the end of the day, you know, we you know, we have to be realistic about how people are going to experience Formula One and that is you know, live is certainly a big piece of of what it is that I think Formula One needs to to focus on is that the live experience I think, you know, adding another driver adding a driver now, who's an American, I think that has a lot of great implications as far as maybe us brands who might take a look at formula wakley as a sponsor, that driver has an entree into you know, understanding what Formula One offers their brand or product or service on on Formula One the global platform looking for fit, relevance and opportunity you know, those are all all important pieces that you know could contribute to a driver even having the opportunity to race in Formula One. It's can be a bit chicken and egg, you know, you can have a driver and not have the funding. You know, we've got plenty of driving talent here who choose to stay to stay in the United States. It's it's hard to be a Grand Prix driver coming from the United States. If you've grown up in the United States. You know, it may involve learning another language or it may involve it would involve moving away from home at a very young age. And, and really setting up a home in Europe in the UK, probably in Italy for a number of years to come up through the ranks and and sort of matriculate through the the progression of series and ladders that take you to be considered for an opportunity in Formula One so just have to be mindful of kind of the structures that are in place now for for American drivers or for drivers anywhere but for American drivers and what that would entail. Alexander Rossi story's pretty amazing. I mean, there's a lot of sacrifice for him to get as far as he did. Also Scott speed was right before him as well right when Vettel got Scott speed seat if I'm not wrong, or around then right because Scott did Red Bull for a bit right? Yeah, so Scott was really came out of a more of a Red Bull focus to find American driving town. You know, he lasted about a year and a half and and yeah, I mean, at the end of the day, he he you know, he moved to Austria. I'm sure he picked up some of the language you know, prodigious carting talent from a racing family. His dad Mike and his brother Alex were you know, well known in the northern California Korean community and that's that's the kind of origins you know, we need you know, people who come from a feint probably a family really, that's that has dedicated their lives to, to appearing on a car track and being able to have the means to do that. Yeah. And I think that totally makes sense in terms of like this chicken and egg problem that you said in terms of sponsorship, too. I was thinking about sponsorship a lot more recently and we've got definitely led companies from America starting to sponsor the sport right in McLaren Zacks just connection in the US has been so big right? Because if you think about there was a time I was watching the Schumacher documentary recently and you start seeing what they're like what the suits look like like there's FedEx on his suit there is seven up when he's driving for Jordan. Yes, which is like again, it was very consumer focused right there was tobacco was very big during that time as well then went away and it became very heavy tech right and I was talking to this about somebody like I've worked with mala with pistons and mala being and Ferraris car makes like nobody cares are mala is Yeah, probably like people who buy pistons, but there's only everybody who's buying a person from mala already knows them. So like the consumer space can be rebuilt, like the space in the car, the space on the suits, can be repurposed for a lot more in this like consumer era. And the new model that McLaren has struggled trying to focus on getting the smaller brands, even like an analytics ran like alteryx. Like I use alteryx, I've used alteryx from the start when they like 20 1314 was started getting a little bit bigger in the US, or Hilton, like these consumer brands are coming back on the forefront of sponsorship, which is very, very American to write for very consumer focused. And I do think that there's so much opportunity, even with the cross pollination that's going on with Silicon Valley, and auto, right, let's talk about the fact that Mercedes, Audi, BMW, they used to be the pinnacle of car development at one point in time, in terms of new technologies. However, now I do think that Silicon Valley's big investment in AI focus, and also like the self driving cars, the next generation of electric cars, hydrogen, even like with companies, such as lucid, rivia, and lucid was, of course, also in Formula E for a bit, and then there is all the tech money that's going on now. And I'm probably blanked out in Tesla, let's talk about Tesla, like all this tech money that's developing the next era of driving. I think that sponsorship that cross pollination can only helped the sport. Sure, and to the extent that those brands want to engage with, with Formula One or around Formula One. You know, I, I see that as, as interesting, certainly an interesting development. But, you know, a lot of you know, a lot of the future of the automobile and I think the consumers experience around the automobile is really turned into almost a Yeah, I would say things are very much more on demand. You know, the sort of rite of passage of it, becoming a teenager and getting your driver's license and what that represents in terms of one's own personal freedom and liberty and independence. is really, that's an app on my phone, like I can, I can go there right now, you know, I don't, I don't need to borrow a car, I have a driving license. So, you know, I mean cars themselves are our, you know, turning into much more of, you know, household appliance, you know, has an on off button, it plugs into the wall. And there is a, I think a visceral component there that is that is different. And, and what Formula One, I would say countries, you know, it's normally aspirated and turbo charge ice rates to many, many field that's really an integral part of what Formula One is, and I would agree, but I think that there's, you know, there's an opportunity to find, I think, within Formula One different segments for brands that, that are interested not only in addressing a US audience, but also their global, just is very much a part of what goes into that kind of consideration. And that could be, you know, specifically based on in a particular regions, they'd like to do business or heads of industry or heads of government, it could be just a pure consumer reach that there are many, many different criteria that go into those, all those kinds of decisions. And, and today's generation of consumer, you know, creating an experience around a brand is a very important part of it. And that's really, I think, again, what, you know, Formula One does in a unique way creates an experience around a brand, whether that's typically, you know, we see a lot of aspirational lifestyle brands associated with Formula One, you know, we see brands that are interested in, in reaching and penetrating deeper than new markets. And, and how those, those, you know, Gene houses selling machine tools around the world, you know, he's very interested in in his HFO, his, you know, the factory outlets, really supplying the, the areas of industry that his his business serves. So, you know, that isn't always, you know, exactly understood on that consumer level. Exactly. But, exactly, so there is a different audience there. It's not to say it's more or less valuable. But Formula One is a platform for gene, Gene Haas, and his machine tool business does work on some level, it must, so that those are, those are the kinds of experiences that maybe we're not having as fans around the team. But his representatives in regions where he's, he's representing his business are certainly part of that experience. And that's what that's what works for, for se, Haas f1. As opposed to Red Bull. We can all go Yeah, exactly. Right. The consumer versus the business to business focus. And I that was the analogy. That's why I brought a mala earlier was because then is the return of investment worth it. For a couple of course, molars spending a lot less than gene Haas is spending on running an entire team. Because at the end of the day, like you said, right, his machine tool of business is what is the focus? Which is the product at the end of the day? And is the return of investment worth it? And maybe it's his maybe it's not, and maybe the ROI is bigger in a consumer fashion than in a business or business fashion. And we can go have a whole other podcast episode about it, right? Because we're seeing definitely Red Bull capitalize on all of that, versus a lot of the other f1 companies that are in their lifeblood or auto companies. by T, I think we've gone into so many different parts of it. And before we even go back and like finish out the episode, I really do want to get your take on the next US team. I know there's the end ready conversation that's been happening and buzzing, somebody says they're going to buy up how somebody says that they're going to buy out alpha motorsport.com said something about it. So I want to hear your thoughts on it. Well, just in sort of a larger context, the future of f1, right as a whole, like there's a big question mark over over the whole, you know, where is sports heading? And what is it going to look like? I mean, we have a lot of different changes in egg engine regulation, you know, I'm on the horizon. And it would, it seems to me that someone like Michael Andretti's Investment Group, could be positioning themselves to take a stake in a team or to take over a team. It's there, there's a value proposition there that you know, is specific to the Andretti brand and to the The group that that they represent, it's a little opaque to me exactly. But I would say it would be, it would be quite something, and I think for to have a second US team on the grid, it would be even better to have a whole new team on the grid and 11th team on the grid, I think that would be it is needed in Formula One, we do need to have more seats available to the talent pool that's out there. Exactly. And I think, you know, even you know, more broadly, I would say no, the future of Formula One while it does have a lot of question marks over it, I think it's got it's got the seeds at its disposal now to really maintain the the root system that's growing certainly in this country to, to carry it through whatever it looks like. And and that's going to be I think, a very key part of of how far one can really submit its future in the United States. So you know, nurturing content creators, people who are contributing to the overall ecosystem and experience of Formula One through lens or through their own perspective is a key part I think of how Formula One will will build and maintain a solid base in this country and that's coming from all sorts of exciting parts of the country and and the sort of demographic there's more women involved in Formula One certainly I've heard incredible you know, array of guests that you've hosted as well as on on other sources of media who are who are doing amazing things with just that they're experienced at home watching it on a screen and surfing the web. So you know the extent that Formula One can engage those those those sources of really audience aggregation i think is huge there's a real opportunity to do that it would be amazing to see you know more people of color and more women represented in Formula One so that you know, we really have I think maybe a more closely allied connection between where the put the sport looks like inside as well as what what it's showing outside as well. I think those are all really you know, important areas where Formula One and liberty can can make changes to grow the sport in the fan base, I love that you touched on the content creator piece because we just had an episode go out about this and we got so much great feedback on that. And yet totally like there's a whole ecosystem every industry should be tapping into for their content creators now. But yeah, we Let's just hope maybe Colton harder will make it to the grid or maybe we'll have a third race and Long Beach I think I've heard Long Beach as a potential next option, or some moving straight circuit of course, we'll have to make a great grade one track and a third race so that more you don't have to wake twice a year at 530 in the morning, cheers and so wrapping all of that I know you touched a little bit on the sport can align on the inclusion aspect to the wider fan base and demographics of people who have not been connected to the sport. But you've also done some great work in the San Francisco community with a Make A Wish Foundation and being encouraging of more maybe non binary folks, LGBTQ plus community to just like come and start getting involved with the sport more I want to just hear on that a little bit and just like finish out with what is your personal mission in the sport because it sounds like it's very experienced very fan focused, which is well we don't hear a lot that people are here you really do love the sport enough to like want to share it with each person you meet along the way and I've obviously seen that with everybody you've ever spoken to so or like around us so it's very interesting to just hear a little bit more about that. Well I can just speak to I think you know, we've we've had people at in San Francisco come out to watch Formula One races from all from the spectrum of folks. Okay, straight on binary. And what you know what I love about any Formula One fan is they just bring their passion and That's, that's that's got to be enough for anybody. I mean, I think that's absolutely what I think makes the sport so interesting is that it's a it's a compelling enough proposition that people, you know, feel drawn to share that enthusiasm and energy and spirit with anybody who, who turns up and our doors are certainly always open. And I'm very, I don't take it lightly that I've been able to moderate and create a community that is super respectful, of course, and tolerant and not in any way, like, antagonistic to any any particular group. It's very much about the racing, and there's no question about it. And I think that's a great sign, I think it's such a great sign for the health of the sport and for the, for what it offers, I think that it's there's just, there's no no limit to the the folks that Formula One can't reach. And that comes with a lot of responsibility. And I think that comes with, you know, the, the need to, to create initiatives as funding the one is done and, and diversity inclusion is something that we can all read more on in, in the Hamilton commission report. There's, there's some, some pretty, pretty tough statistics and that, I encourage people to give that a read, there's, there's room for growth, you know, there's room for improvement, for sure. And how Formula One, embraces that message, and walks the walk, is going to be a big part of how it will grow and sustain and, and maintain no matter what the engine regulations look like, or how many teams are on the grid or where it races in the world. It's that I think it's that connection, that, that it's, it's obliged to nurture and continue to water and grow and, and, and acknowledged, yeah, and I love that you use the words, responsibility and learning in there, because I think a lot of diversity and inclusion talk has to come with a lot of learning or I would say unlearning of what we've known the world to be. And even as a person of color, I don't think I understand all aspects of what the black community goes through. And for me, it's a constant learning today. And it is key to kind of developing the next steps. And I think learning and responsibility is one of the key tenants of growing and inclusive community. And I'm glad that that's something that you're modeling for other communities in the world to kind of start thinking about because we've all seen the hate and the bigotry we sometimes get on f1 social media and more modeling in real life. Hopefully you will filter down to social media one day as well. Absolutely, absolutely. I mean, the courage again, you know, folks to find a community who's interested in Formula One and start, start watching your living room and invite friends over. It doesn't have to be anything too elaborate. Like I said, I mean, we started in 2005. With with 10 people. You know, what a sports bar. I mean, it was not a big gathering. But from there, you know, we were able to make a an impact, I think, I think on how other communities around the United States can can build an interest and it just acknowledge a passion, a shared interest and an activity that is very repeatable. Yeah, hopefully I will have make it down to one of your viewings in San Francisco this year, or the Sonoma speed festival if you're putting, again another demonstration of a car but I definitely we'll try and meet up in person this year. So closing all of this out, what's your personal mission in the sport moving forward? Like what's next for you in Formula One? Well, I think my mission really, I think, has been one of sort of education inclusion and engagement and for me personally just building more inroads to to like minded individuals within Formula One who see the need to reach and engage with certainly American Formula One fans more deeply more regularly. And and making the case for that is exactly what you know, what folks like yourself are doing here are really creating a, an understanding and, and a conversation around the opportunity that's there, and the sort of the organization and the and the audience and those are all those are all the right things I think to be sharing with, with your audience as well as Formula One and and that includes Formula One and The folks that, you know, I hope to connect with next month in Austin. I'm very, very keen to reconnect with folks I haven't seen in two years, but I'm also, you know, keen to understand, you know, some of their perspectives on the changes that they're seeing in their communities and within their own audiences, whether that's other journalists or teams, or engineers, or producers of content, and just general fans, and you know, even in, even in the toughest times, you know, that formula one scene in the United States, and I think of, like 2015, you know, on the Saturday when Hurricane Patricia was like, beaten down on the crowds of people who are gathered to watch qualifying on Saturday, you know, there's a picture I have on my Twitter header banner. And it's just a crowd of people who were invited to come out of the sort of out of the mud out of the grandstands, and enter the pit lane, at Bernie's invitation, and Bobby Epstein to come down and just line up in front of the team garages and just see what's there. I was thought, boy, if you could take that, you could take that crowd of people in the 1000s, I think it was an if you could just see the energy and the enthusiasm and the passion that these people had, who were soaked to the bone. at four o'clock, on Saturday, after no cars ran and qualifying, you know, you you really see what I saw, which is, you know, I think a very enthusiastic, diverse and interested community of fans who are absolutely out there. And, and, you know, keep the light on form. I mean, like, like you do here. Thank you. Thank you so much. I love that I can't wait to meet you in person next month as well. But before we wrap up, tell people what they can find you on social media so that they can follow your incredible journey and thoughts. I love your Twitter, personally, but I just want people to hear from you. Sure, I'm at f1 us on Twitter and San Francisco Formula One group is at s f f1. On Twitter. Also have a website where I have been journaling my journey and things that I've done in Formula One, and that's that one Laurel drive calm, the number one write la URL driver calm and that. Yeah, that's a great way to just get in touch or reach out and always open to direct messages from folks who are interested in finding groups or just add me on Twitter. And I'm always happy to retweet where you are, what you're, you know, the fact that you're looking for an f1 group to meet up with and chances are, you know, within my reach, you know, there'll be someone there who's, who's familiar with the worst start looking No, that's perfect. I will add to your Twitter when I can find a race time when I don't have to wake up at 8am and don't want to watch it from my bed. But thank you so much again, for coming on today. I absolutely loved this conversation and looking forward to staying connected. Thank you, Peter. My pleasure. Thank you. Thank you.